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	<title>Comments on: Why Do Sociologists Lean Left &#8212; Really Left?</title>
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	<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/</link>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Deborah Savage</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-71945</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah Savage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 23:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Perhaps the answer to Peter's question can be found in Adam Smith's choice of title ... an inquiry into the WEALTH of nations.  Economics has followed a track that notes that there is too damned much poverty in the world, and we want to try to figure out how to make the world's economies rich.  Sociologists ended up studing how institutions keep people poor.  Somehow that got translated into hating wealth and those that have it.

Republican/Democrat affiliation is a a somewhat different matter, of course, and increasingly about litmus test questions.

My 13-year-old son just expressed amazement that Lincoln was a Republican.  After all, he seemed to stand for all kinds of things now associated with Democrats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the answer to Peter&#8217;s question can be found in Adam Smith&#8217;s choice of title &#8230; an inquiry into the WEALTH of nations.  Economics has followed a track that notes that there is too damned much poverty in the world, and we want to try to figure out how to make the world&#8217;s economies rich.  Sociologists ended up studing how institutions keep people poor.  Somehow that got translated into hating wealth and those that have it.</p>
<p>Republican/Democrat affiliation is a a somewhat different matter, of course, and increasingly about litmus test questions.</p>
<p>My 13-year-old son just expressed amazement that Lincoln was a Republican.  After all, he seemed to stand for all kinds of things now associated with Democrats.</p>
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		<title>By: Did you watch O'Rieley last night - Page 9 - U2 Feedback</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-70613</link>
		<dc:creator>Did you watch O'Rieley last night - Page 9 - U2 Feedback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-70613</guid>
		<description>[...] really weaken your arguments.    Looks like BVS dug himself a hole again.  Poor little feller.   Why Do Sociologists Lean Left &#8212; Really Left? « Organizations and Markets  44:1 Democrat/Republican leaning of sociology faculty members. The highest of any discipline.     [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] really weaken your arguments.    Looks like BVS dug himself a hole again.  Poor little feller.   Why Do Sociologists Lean Left &#8212; Really Left? « Organizations and Markets  44:1 Democrat/Republican leaning of sociology faculty members. The highest of any discipline.     [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SociĂłlogos SociĂłfilos &#171; CODFISH WATERS</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-70138</link>
		<dc:creator>SociĂłlogos SociĂłfilos &#171; CODFISH WATERS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-70138</guid>
		<description>[...] tambĂ©m relevantes. Este estudo realizado em 11 universidades da CalifĂłrnia, e que Ă© analisado neste blog, sugere uma forte tendĂȘncia de esquerda entre os acadĂ©micos em geral&#8230; The study, by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tambĂ©m relevantes. Este estudo realizado em 11 universidades da CalifĂłrnia, e que Ă© analisado neste blog, sugere uma forte tendĂȘncia de esquerda entre os acadĂ©micos em geral&#8230; The study, by [...]</p>
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		<title>By: lars</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1316</link>
		<dc:creator>lars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Aug 2006 09:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1316</guid>
		<description>@tina: okay I go along with most of what you said, everything exept for luhmann. My argument was, that not statements of being left or right ist is the criteria for the political position but the theory they produce and in this terms. But although Luhmann did spare such articulations in his theory, system theory is not beyond the political. And the concept of evolutiuonary systems is best described as "it could have come in other ways but it didn't..." in the politicalk system this would be a quite conservative position.

Maybe it's time to historicize system theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tina: okay I go along with most of what you said, everything exept for luhmann. My argument was, that not statements of being left or right ist is the criteria for the political position but the theory they produce and in this terms. But although Luhmann did spare such articulations in his theory, system theory is not beyond the political. And the concept of evolutiuonary systems is best described as &#8220;it could have come in other ways but it didn&#8217;t&#8230;&#8221; in the politicalk system this would be a quite conservative position.</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s time to historicize system theory.</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1305</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 22:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1305</guid>
		<description>hm, I know the differences in positions between Adorno, just to name one leading figure of the frankfurt school - and Niklas Luhmann as the leading figure representative of the systems theory being remote from any statement toward left or right since this is not his focus. Besides when mentioning that Adorno did not really get along well with the spirit and political affiliation of the students he was confronted with, it tells you that there are differences between 'left' and 'left' ; in the German context we know from Ulrich Beck theory that the categories of 'left' and 'right' have become increasingly fuzzy in recent decades; and in an international context - if you take into account the political system and party structure of the U.S. and Germany for example - we experience, that the categories might even have different content when you get to issues of concern. But still: the tendency that Peter Klein discussed for the US. context holds true in Germany, too, but a good explanation should take into account both the American and the German tradition and history of the discipline. 

I think you are right that awareness of social inequalities is an important aspect when it comes to the decision for stuying sociology. Yet I would want to add: it is not the only aspect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hm, I know the differences in positions between Adorno, just to name one leading figure of the frankfurt school - and Niklas Luhmann as the leading figure representative of the systems theory being remote from any statement toward left or right since this is not his focus. Besides when mentioning that Adorno did not really get along well with the spirit and political affiliation of the students he was confronted with, it tells you that there are differences between &#8216;left&#8217; and &#8216;left&#8217; ; in the German context we know from Ulrich Beck theory that the categories of &#8216;left&#8217; and &#8216;right&#8217; have become increasingly fuzzy in recent decades; and in an international context - if you take into account the political system and party structure of the U.S. and Germany for example - we experience, that the categories might even have different content when you get to issues of concern. But still: the tendency that Peter Klein discussed for the US. context holds true in Germany, too, but a good explanation should take into account both the American and the German tradition and history of the discipline. </p>
<p>I think you are right that awareness of social inequalities is an important aspect when it comes to the decision for stuying sociology. Yet I would want to add: it is not the only aspect.</p>
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		<title>By: lars</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1279</link>
		<dc:creator>lars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 22:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1279</guid>
		<description>...Last not least left and right are relative positions bedsides being fuzzy.  Sociologists tend to look left if you compare them with the recent discussions on brain and free will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;Last not least left and right are relative positions bedsides being fuzzy.  Sociologists tend to look left if you compare them with the recent discussions on brain and free will.</p>
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		<title>By: lars</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1278</link>
		<dc:creator>lars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 22:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1278</guid>
		<description>I am not sure if you're so right about the left tendencies in german sociology. Right now it is more common to citate Frankfurt Schiool, but they do function more in a ornamental way. But mainstream sociology has always been much more a conservative or liberal domain: Take for example Luhmann and his origins in Freyer and Schelsky or the the the parallels in RCT approaches and action based approaches. 
and concerning especially Frankfurt School, they did have some conservative tendencies in their thinking, too -  take for example their model of "Kulturkritik". 
The difference here is that voting for left parties doesn't make the voter necessarily a leftist , the much more if he/she is       a sociologist. In this case the concept of society itself is the key to their political position. 
Just to colour that: compare Adorno's concept of society with Luhmann's.  While for Adorno society was a special form of social organization which would vanish in the state of conciliation, Luhmann tends to see a evolutionary code in society, which is - as a matter of evolution - universal. 
You might also name  the widespread use of the terms "the social", "society" and "culture" as substitutes.

Although I accept your description of the study choices i wouldn't mix left with an awareness of social inequalities. 
Last not least left and r</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure if you&#8217;re so right about the left tendencies in german sociology. Right now it is more common to citate Frankfurt Schiool, but they do function more in a ornamental way. But mainstream sociology has always been much more a conservative or liberal domain: Take for example Luhmann and his origins in Freyer and Schelsky or the the the parallels in RCT approaches and action based approaches.<br />
and concerning especially Frankfurt School, they did have some conservative tendencies in their thinking, too -  take for example their model of &#8220;Kulturkritik&#8221;.<br />
The difference here is that voting for left parties doesn&#8217;t make the voter necessarily a leftist , the much more if he/she is       a sociologist. In this case the concept of society itself is the key to their political position.<br />
Just to colour that: compare Adorno&#8217;s concept of society with Luhmann&#8217;s.  While for Adorno society was a special form of social organization which would vanish in the state of conciliation, Luhmann tends to see a evolutionary code in society, which is - as a matter of evolution - universal.<br />
You might also name  the widespread use of the terms &#8220;the social&#8221;, &#8220;society&#8221; and &#8220;culture&#8221; as substitutes.</p>
<p>Although I accept your description of the study choices i wouldn&#8217;t mix left with an awareness of social inequalities.<br />
Last not least left and r</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1048</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1048</guid>
		<description>my explanation comes from personal experience with the German university system. I believe, for one part the political affiliation of sociologist toward the left is the result the history of this discipline - for example, sociologists in Germany did have to leave the country when the nazis came to power, not only because of their jewish background but also just because they we occupied with something the nazis did not know and did not understand - and when sociology came back and was founded once more after 1945 the experts representing the discipline had had refugee background and very bad experiences with conservative thinking, and that contributed to their their thought (Adorno and the Frankfurt School is the example I have in mind). Later, in the 1960s these sociologists were surprised and not very happy with the youth they were confronted with. 

The other part is the social background of students who choose to study sociology,and that changes, too. In the 1990s, people with a political affiliation toward the left would chose sociology as their subject - and almost everybody in a student cohort would share some basic orientations in political thinking; if one did not share this orientation this was a matter of discussion. But this had also to do with the social background of young people starting to study sociology and with subjects offered within the diploma-education. In the 1990s more people from the lower strata discovered socilogy as a good possibility to enter the German university system whereas they had no chance (or almost no chance) to get into economy, medicine or law. Particularly in disciplines such as medicine and law, students are more homogeneous, such that the majority of them are sons and daughters of doctors and lawyers or from academics of adjacent disciplins. Today it seems like the social background of students in sociology has become more heterogeneous, such that you find students from all strata and milieus, and increasingly, find the sons and daughters of academics of almost all disciplines. It is not as unusual for the son or daughter of an entrepreneur to study sociology as it was ten years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my explanation comes from personal experience with the German university system. I believe, for one part the political affiliation of sociologist toward the left is the result the history of this discipline - for example, sociologists in Germany did have to leave the country when the nazis came to power, not only because of their jewish background but also just because they we occupied with something the nazis did not know and did not understand - and when sociology came back and was founded once more after 1945 the experts representing the discipline had had refugee background and very bad experiences with conservative thinking, and that contributed to their their thought (Adorno and the Frankfurt School is the example I have in mind). Later, in the 1960s these sociologists were surprised and not very happy with the youth they were confronted with. </p>
<p>The other part is the social background of students who choose to study sociology,and that changes, too. In the 1990s, people with a political affiliation toward the left would chose sociology as their subject - and almost everybody in a student cohort would share some basic orientations in political thinking; if one did not share this orientation this was a matter of discussion. But this had also to do with the social background of young people starting to study sociology and with subjects offered within the diploma-education. In the 1990s more people from the lower strata discovered socilogy as a good possibility to enter the German university system whereas they had no chance (or almost no chance) to get into economy, medicine or law. Particularly in disciplines such as medicine and law, students are more homogeneous, such that the majority of them are sons and daughters of doctors and lawyers or from academics of adjacent disciplins. Today it seems like the social background of students in sociology has become more heterogeneous, such that you find students from all strata and milieus, and increasingly, find the sons and daughters of academics of almost all disciplines. It is not as unusual for the son or daughter of an entrepreneur to study sociology as it was ten years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Klein</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1026</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Klein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 23:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1026</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I am honestly curious about how you square the rational ambitions of classical liberalism with the irrational conservative ideals on âorthodox Christianityâ and reliance on Authority?&lt;/i&gt;

A reasonable question. I will address it in a future blog post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I am honestly curious about how you square the rational ambitions of classical liberalism with the irrational conservative ideals on âorthodox Christianityâ and reliance on Authority?</i></p>
<p>A reasonable question. I will address it in a future blog post.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon Symou</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1023</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon Symou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/why-do-sociologists-lean-left-really-left/#comment-1023</guid>
		<description>Left and right are of course fuzzy concepts so as usual there is no easy answer. In todayâs political situation I suppose the main difference has to do with what you prioritieze, which translates into a preferred form of social organization.

Very roughly speaking, modern day âLeft-wingersâ prioritize the well being of people, especially those not so well off. As a result they seek a system of government that assures a good life for a nations citizens (including social security, freedom from oppressive traditions and authorities such as the helplessness promulgated by orthodox Christianity').

Modern day âRight-wingersâ instead prioritize the well being of corporations and the promotion of economic growth. As a result they seek a system of government that assures good conditions for a nationâs capitalists and entrepreneurs (including fighting unions and social security, and promoting an authoritarian and traditionalist mind set among workers, including the passive Christian promise of salvation in heaven rather than on earth).

Of course, both the left and right run the risk of becoming anti-liberal.

Perverted forms of âleftismâ have led to authoritarian communist societies, a fact that should not be confused with being âleftâ. Cf. the âleft wingâ liberal Bakunin who fought Marx vigorously and warned of the dangers of a new âred bureaucracyâ which would prove to be âthe most vile and terrible lie that our century has created.â

Similarly, the rightâs reliance on irrationally motivated authority, faith and tradition are basic components of fascism, a fact that should also not be confused with being ârightâ. Cf. the antiauthoritarian âright wingâ liberal Adam Smith who spoke of âthose who live by profitâ especially monopolistic ones âan order of men, whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it.â

In terms of professors, I guess sociologists study real societies, groups and individuals and tend to adopt their goals and priorities. Economists who study economies, corporations and homo economici similarly tend to internalize their priorities. Those economists who prioritize people over corporations (who perhaps come from or know people from the not so well of walks of life) may then be left.

Btw, I am honestly curious about how you square the rational ambitions of classical liberalism with the irrational conservative ideals on âorthodox Christianityâ and reliance on Authority? Christianity and Authority are of course practical tools for pacifying workers and more generally promoting corporate rather than individual freedom. This seems highly consistent with interests of the Smithian âprofiteerâ, but hardly with the sentiments of Smith himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Left and right are of course fuzzy concepts so as usual there is no easy answer. In todayâs political situation I suppose the main difference has to do with what you prioritieze, which translates into a preferred form of social organization.</p>
<p>Very roughly speaking, modern day âLeft-wingersâ prioritize the well being of people, especially those not so well off. As a result they seek a system of government that assures a good life for a nations citizens (including social security, freedom from oppressive traditions and authorities such as the helplessness promulgated by orthodox Christianity&#8217;).</p>
<p>Modern day âRight-wingersâ instead prioritize the well being of corporations and the promotion of economic growth. As a result they seek a system of government that assures good conditions for a nationâs capitalists and entrepreneurs (including fighting unions and social security, and promoting an authoritarian and traditionalist mind set among workers, including the passive Christian promise of salvation in heaven rather than on earth).</p>
<p>Of course, both the left and right run the risk of becoming anti-liberal.</p>
<p>Perverted forms of âleftismâ have led to authoritarian communist societies, a fact that should not be confused with being âleftâ. Cf. the âleft wingâ liberal Bakunin who fought Marx vigorously and warned of the dangers of a new âred bureaucracyâ which would prove to be âthe most vile and terrible lie that our century has created.â</p>
<p>Similarly, the rightâs reliance on irrationally motivated authority, faith and tradition are basic components of fascism, a fact that should also not be confused with being ârightâ. Cf. the antiauthoritarian âright wingâ liberal Adam Smith who spoke of âthose who live by profitâ especially monopolistic ones âan order of men, whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it.â</p>
<p>In terms of professors, I guess sociologists study real societies, groups and individuals and tend to adopt their goals and priorities. Economists who study economies, corporations and homo economici similarly tend to internalize their priorities. Those economists who prioritize people over corporations (who perhaps come from or know people from the not so well of walks of life) may then be left.</p>
<p>Btw, I am honestly curious about how you square the rational ambitions of classical liberalism with the irrational conservative ideals on âorthodox Christianityâ and reliance on Authority? Christianity and Authority are of course practical tools for pacifying workers and more generally promoting corporate rather than individual freedom. This seems highly consistent with interests of the Smithian âprofiteerâ, but hardly with the sentiments of Smith himself.</p>
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