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	<title>Comments on: A Plea for Economic Education</title>
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	<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/</link>
	<description>Economics of organizations, strategy, entrepreneurship, innovation, and more</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Comments on economic education &#171; Twofish&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59269</link>
		<dc:creator>Comments on economic education &#171; Twofish&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59269</guid>
		<description>[...] Comments on economic&#160;education Filed under: austrian economics, economics &#8212; twofish @ 5:29 am   http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Comments on economic&nbsp;education Filed under: austrian economics, economics &#8212; twofish @ 5:29 am   <a href="http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/" rel="nofollow">http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: twofish</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59268</link>
		<dc:creator>twofish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59268</guid>
		<description>One thing that often surprises people is the degree to which people working in Wall Street investment banks tend to not be "economic conservatives."  Investment banks are huge bureaucracies, and the people in them are generally not allergic to working in large bureaucracies.  Also people who work on the raw edge of markets everyday see some of the limitations of said markets.  Lots of Rubin Democrats in the banks.

People like George Soros and Warren Buffet have warned against market fundamentalism, and I don't recall anyone out of a major Wall Street investment bank that has recently called for unfettered capitalism.  (Hedge funds are different.)

One of the funny ironies involves sitting at a trading desk, and going through a maddening socialist central-planning bureaucracy trying to get a phone installed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that often surprises people is the degree to which people working in Wall Street investment banks tend to not be &#8220;economic conservatives.&#8221;  Investment banks are huge bureaucracies, and the people in them are generally not allergic to working in large bureaucracies.  Also people who work on the raw edge of markets everyday see some of the limitations of said markets.  Lots of Rubin Democrats in the banks.</p>
<p>People like George Soros and Warren Buffet have warned against market fundamentalism, and I don&#8217;t recall anyone out of a major Wall Street investment bank that has recently called for unfettered capitalism.  (Hedge funds are different.)</p>
<p>One of the funny ironies involves sitting at a trading desk, and going through a maddening socialist central-planning bureaucracy trying to get a phone installed.</p>
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		<title>By: twofish</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59267</link>
		<dc:creator>twofish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59267</guid>
		<description>Curiously the entrepreneurs that I know wouldn't be much deterred by high taxes.  Entrepreneurs have a bit of economic irrationality to them, and so I don't think most would mind giving a lot of their wealth to other people, as long as they get recognition.

One other observation is that the very wealthy are less opposed to high taxes that one would otherwise assume they would be, in part because money is not a huge motivating factor in their behavior.  There comes a point in which you have more money they you can possibly spend, but people that are self-made generally keep wanted to make more, because it satisfies some deep psychological need.  In the case of entrepreneurs it is usually the desire to create.  In the case of people in corporate bureaucracies the motivating factor often is the power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curiously the entrepreneurs that I know wouldn&#8217;t be much deterred by high taxes.  Entrepreneurs have a bit of economic irrationality to them, and so I don&#8217;t think most would mind giving a lot of their wealth to other people, as long as they get recognition.</p>
<p>One other observation is that the very wealthy are less opposed to high taxes that one would otherwise assume they would be, in part because money is not a huge motivating factor in their behavior.  There comes a point in which you have more money they you can possibly spend, but people that are self-made generally keep wanted to make more, because it satisfies some deep psychological need.  In the case of entrepreneurs it is usually the desire to create.  In the case of people in corporate bureaucracies the motivating factor often is the power.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rosenbaum</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59162</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rosenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59162</guid>
		<description>One thing to keep in mind is that more than 80% of all millionaires are first generation.  This stat actually goes back to the late 1800's.  What entrepreneurs know about making money doesn't require an economics education.  It's a simple theory.  You make something that people want and you sell it for more than it cost you.  The top 1% in this country is populated mostly by people who started their own business.  Take a look at the Forbes 500 and you'll be surprised by the background of these people.  It includes our famous Harvard dropouts as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing to keep in mind is that more than 80% of all millionaires are first generation.  This stat actually goes back to the late 1800&#8217;s.  What entrepreneurs know about making money doesn&#8217;t require an economics education.  It&#8217;s a simple theory.  You make something that people want and you sell it for more than it cost you.  The top 1% in this country is populated mostly by people who started their own business.  Take a look at the Forbes 500 and you&#8217;ll be surprised by the background of these people.  It includes our famous Harvard dropouts as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Twofish</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59158</link>
		<dc:creator>Twofish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59158</guid>
		<description>It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair

My experience is that having people understand economic theory doesn't really change behavior that much.  When people are in a situation they stand to lose something immediately in exchange for some long term and hard to define benefit for the common good, people forget about the common good.

Also one of the consistent themes that I've heard from people who have started their own companies is that it is economically irrational to do so.  If your goal is to make money, don't start your business since the risks are much too high.  People who do start their own companies usually have some desire to do so that can't be described in terms of utility functions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair</p>
<p>My experience is that having people understand economic theory doesn&#8217;t really change behavior that much.  When people are in a situation they stand to lose something immediately in exchange for some long term and hard to define benefit for the common good, people forget about the common good.</p>
<p>Also one of the consistent themes that I&#8217;ve heard from people who have started their own companies is that it is economically irrational to do so.  If your goal is to make money, don&#8217;t start your business since the risks are much too high.  People who do start their own companies usually have some desire to do so that can&#8217;t be described in terms of utility functions.</p>
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		<title>By: Twofish</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59151</link>
		<dc:creator>Twofish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59151</guid>
		<description>I think that the centrally planned corporation exists because central planning is sometimes the optimal form of economic organization within a market economy.  

The problem with economic education is that it does no good for people to replace left-wing anti-market dogma with right-wing pro-market dogma.  Rather I think that economic theory should start by first teaching a variety of different economic theories, and then by making available first hand information about economic institutions really work.  People then can try to figure out how to fit the theories with experiences.

The issue that I face is that large corporations don't like to talk about what they are doing since there is a perception that talking will only get you in trouble.  This is a problem because what they happens is that only bad corporations and the worst parts of corporations get publicized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the centrally planned corporation exists because central planning is sometimes the optimal form of economic organization within a market economy.  </p>
<p>The problem with economic education is that it does no good for people to replace left-wing anti-market dogma with right-wing pro-market dogma.  Rather I think that economic theory should start by first teaching a variety of different economic theories, and then by making available first hand information about economic institutions really work.  People then can try to figure out how to fit the theories with experiences.</p>
<p>The issue that I face is that large corporations don&#8217;t like to talk about what they are doing since there is a perception that talking will only get you in trouble.  This is a problem because what they happens is that only bad corporations and the worst parts of corporations get publicized.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rosenbaum</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59049</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rosenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 05:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59049</guid>
		<description>I don't know maybe we'd all like to go back a hundred years when 90% of the population lived in poverty and the average life expentancy was 35.  I worry less about the check out ladies that are unenlightened than the college professors stuck in the golden years that never existed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know maybe we&#8217;d all like to go back a hundred years when 90% of the population lived in poverty and the average life expentancy was 35.  I worry less about the check out ladies that are unenlightened than the college professors stuck in the golden years that never existed.</p>
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		<title>By: John McG.</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59031</link>
		<dc:creator>John McG.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 03:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-59031</guid>
		<description>The posting is so true.  And so is its converse:  As long as the check-out ladies et al. remain unenlightened, freedom's chances of surviving diminish all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The posting is so true.  And so is its converse:  As long as the check-out ladies et al. remain unenlightened, freedom&#8217;s chances of surviving diminish all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rosenbaum</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-58937</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rosenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-58937</guid>
		<description>Higher percentage returns come from a higher risk/reward ratio.  People who make a lot of money are more willing and able to take risks.  The only way in a growing dynamic economy to close the gap is to take money away from one group and give it to another which creates a disincentive for risk taking.  Or we can just tell pepole who are doing well to stop what they're doing so the others can catch up, which of course they never will. 

It's basically the limited pie philosophy sponsored by people who think that other do well because they inherit money or they steal it from others.  In some cases, it's that basic belief systems that keeps them where they are.  

Study the life store of Larry Ellison is you want to see how to close the gap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Higher percentage returns come from a higher risk/reward ratio.  People who make a lot of money are more willing and able to take risks.  The only way in a growing dynamic economy to close the gap is to take money away from one group and give it to another which creates a disincentive for risk taking.  Or we can just tell pepole who are doing well to stop what they&#8217;re doing so the others can catch up, which of course they never will. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s basically the limited pie philosophy sponsored by people who think that other do well because they inherit money or they steal it from others.  In some cases, it&#8217;s that basic belief systems that keeps them where they are.  </p>
<p>Study the life store of Larry Ellison is you want to see how to close the gap.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Reno</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-58933</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Reno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/a-plea-for-economic-education/#comment-58933</guid>
		<description>I have long thought that economics should be taught in middle and/or high school, and not just as an elective for one year. Not sure if it is required at this point as I have been out of school for a while now. Economics is one of the most underestimated subjects in schools, and I agree with the post that if everyone had but a layman's understanding of economics, then many of this country's problems wouldn't exist.

As for Steve's example, interesting point of view, but I do think most people are concerned about percentage of growth, not absolute dollars. But it takes a lot of money to make a lot of money in more cases than not. I think that is where the gap really comes from. Also the instant gratification notion. If people at the lower end of the earning spectrum would invest some of their money, even a little bit, they would eventually make it to the ranks of the millionaires.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have long thought that economics should be taught in middle and/or high school, and not just as an elective for one year. Not sure if it is required at this point as I have been out of school for a while now. Economics is one of the most underestimated subjects in schools, and I agree with the post that if everyone had but a layman&#8217;s understanding of economics, then many of this country&#8217;s problems wouldn&#8217;t exist.</p>
<p>As for Steve&#8217;s example, interesting point of view, but I do think most people are concerned about percentage of growth, not absolute dollars. But it takes a lot of money to make a lot of money in more cases than not. I think that is where the gap really comes from. Also the instant gratification notion. If people at the lower end of the earning spectrum would invest some of their money, even a little bit, they would eventually make it to the ranks of the millionaires.</p>
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