Comments on: Integrity and the Academy: Are Academicians in a Position to Preach About Social Responsibility? http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/ Economics of organizations, strategy, entrepreneurship, innovation, and more Sun, 27 Jul 2008 02:31:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU By: dhoopes http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61598 dhoopes Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:56:08 +0000 http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61598 All of my non-academic work experience is in small firms. It is harder to be "political" there. I think many people are surprised by how common political subterfuge is in universities and colleges. However, there is certainly a great deal of variance across schools. All of my non-academic work experience is in small firms. It is harder to be “political” there. I think many people are surprised by how common political subterfuge is in universities and colleges. However, there is certainly a great deal of variance across schools.

]]> By: Donald A. Coffin http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61576 Donald A. Coffin Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:33:58 +0000 http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61576 My experiences in a university setting must also differ substantially. Not that academics are necessarily "civil." But in my experience, they are honest, particularly intellectually honest. If something is bullshit, we tend to say so--although, again in my experience, without intending it personally. Now, if you really want to see a work environment that has some significant negative features, try big-city government. My experiences in a university setting must also differ substantially. Not that academics are necessarily “civil.” But in my experience, they are honest, particularly intellectually honest. If something is bullshit, we tend to say so–although, again in my experience, without intending it personally.

Now, if you really want to see a work environment that has some significant negative features, try big-city government.

]]> By: Rafe Champion http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61560 Rafe Champion Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:38:28 +0000 http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61560 Steve, of course these things are best tackled by merit-based hiring on an individual basis. That is my point. To depart from the principle of individual merit and use race or gender based criteria for entry is racism and sexism straight up. That is why the set aside system is the most obvious form of institutional racism in the US since slavery was abolished. Steve, of course these things are best tackled by merit-based hiring on an individual basis. That is my point. To depart from the principle of individual merit and use race or gender based criteria for entry is racism and sexism straight up. That is why the set aside system is the most obvious form of institutional racism in the US since slavery was abolished.

]]> By: Steve Phelan http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61547 Steve Phelan Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:13:27 +0000 http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61547 Interesting take, Rafe. Are senior faculty then acting rationally to not work with those they perceive as under-qualified? Could the perception that a particular group may be under-qualified then lead to a lower desire to work with qualified members of that group? I would argue that the latter case is a form of discrimination (perhaps best tackled by strict merit-based hiring). However, is choosing not to work with an under-prepared colleague also discrimination? Interesting link here on Prop 209: http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_1_prop209.html P.S. In my experience, large corporations are just as political as large universities. Interesting take, Rafe. Are senior faculty then acting rationally to not work with those they perceive as under-qualified? Could the perception that a particular group may be under-qualified then lead to a lower desire to work with qualified members of that group? I would argue that the latter case is a form of discrimination (perhaps best tackled by strict merit-based hiring). However, is choosing not to work with an under-prepared colleague also discrimination?

Interesting link here on Prop 209:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_1_prop209.html

P.S. In my experience, large corporations are just as political as large universities.

]]> By: links for 2007-11-28 at Jacob Christensen http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61494 links for 2007-11-28 at Jacob Christensen Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:24:17 +0000 http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61494 [...] Integrity and the academy: Are academicians in a position to preach about social responsibility? « ... There are more passive-aggressive people in the academy than most other place. Academics seem especially prone to speaking with a forked tongue. (tags: academic university ethics culture) [...] [...] Integrity and the academy: Are academicians in a position to preach about social responsibility? « … There are more passive-aggressive people in the academy than most other place. Academics seem especially prone to speaking with a forked tongue. (tags: academic university ethics culture) [...]

]]> By: Rafe Champion http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61409 Rafe Champion Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:03:56 +0000 http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61409 On that topic, Jacques Barzun had a story about a smart and pretty girl who turned up in his class at Columbia. He marked her assignment C with a lot of comments on it. She came to him in tears, she never got a C in junior college. He said "didn't your teachers tell you any of the things I put in the comments". She said "Yes, but they never marked me down". On that topic, Jacques Barzun had a story about a smart and pretty girl who turned up in his class at Columbia. He marked her assignment C with a lot of comments on it. She came to him in tears, she never got a C in junior college. He said “didn’t your teachers tell you any of the things I put in the comments”.

She said “Yes, but they never marked me down”.

]]> By: Rafe Champion http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61406 Rafe Champion Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:59:55 +0000 http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61406 Two points. First, on the integrity and civility of academics vs people in business, Bill Bartley addressed that in his posthumous book on the economics of knowledge and the mind industry. He concluded that businssmen were not in the race for any medals for backstabbing and unprincipled behaviour. That is corroborated by the experience of a Kate Jennings, a female Australian writer and poet who has been in the US for years, some spent writing for big firms. As a socialist she could not believe the level of civility and decency that she observed (most of the time). Second, if there is some kind of problem encountered by females at tenure level, perhaps that reflects discrimination in their favour earlier, so when the going gets really tough the ones who have been favoured are in trouble. That will apply to any of the "disadvantaged" groups that get in under set asides. Two points. First, on the integrity and civility of academics vs people in business, Bill Bartley addressed that in his posthumous book on the economics of knowledge and the mind industry. He concluded that businssmen were not in the race for any medals for backstabbing and unprincipled behaviour. That is corroborated by the experience of a Kate Jennings, a female Australian writer and poet who has been in the US for years, some spent writing for big firms. As a socialist she could not believe the level of civility and decency that she observed (most of the time).

Second, if there is some kind of problem encountered by females at tenure level, perhaps that reflects discrimination in their favour earlier, so when the going gets really tough the ones who have been favoured are in trouble. That will apply to any of the “disadvantaged” groups that get in under set asides.

]]> By: Steve Phelan http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61402 Steve Phelan Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:43:06 +0000 http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61402 I guess I haven't had the same set of experiences that you have. :-) I guess I haven’t had the same set of experiences that you have. :-)

]]> By: dhoopes http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61390 dhoopes Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:25:25 +0000 http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61390 I don't know. I do know that you cannot make a case in court based on outcome. Intent must be shown. My comments are based on observation. It seems women get hired at a fair clip. But, tenure does not seem to be granted at the same clip. And, I've just seen some pretty bizarre decisions that seem to be discrimination. So, I don't have many facts. It's just the way it seems to me. I don’t know. I do know that you cannot make a case in court based on outcome. Intent must be shown. My comments are based on observation. It seems women get hired at a fair clip. But, tenure does not seem to be granted at the same clip. And, I’ve just seen some pretty bizarre decisions that seem to be discrimination. So, I don’t have many facts. It’s just the way it seems to me.

]]> By: Steve Phelan http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61387 Steve Phelan Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:51:58 +0000 http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/11/27/integrity-and-the-academy-are-academicians-in-a-position-to-preach-about-social-responsibility/#comment-61387 David, is it now socially responsible to assume that an equality of outcomes is more desirable than an equality of opportunity? David, is it now socially responsible to assume that an equality of outcomes is more desirable than an equality of opportunity?

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