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	<title>Comments on: The Downside of (Quasi-)Academic Blogging</title>
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	<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/09/04/the-downside-of-quasi-academic-blogging/</link>
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		<title>By: Peter Klein</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/09/04/the-downside-of-quasi-academic-blogging/#comment-72735</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Klein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/?p=1541#comment-72735</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Marcia, everybody knows all wheelchairs will be self-propelled by then. Maybe they&#039;ll even levitate! I bet a clever MIT grad will invent one. There are plenty of us mumbnuts [stet] out there to buy them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marcia, everybody knows all wheelchairs will be self-propelled by then. Maybe they&#8217;ll even levitate! I bet a clever MIT grad will invent one. There are plenty of us mumbnuts [stet] out there to buy them.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcia</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/09/04/the-downside-of-quasi-academic-blogging/#comment-72734</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marcia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/?p=1541#comment-72734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What is apparent is that you focus your &quot;quasi-academic&quot; mind... or what little you have of it... on other people&#039;s opinions.  Most call that HATING.  Your opinions, snobbty white guy, are just as inane and stupid.  After reading some of your blogs,  might I suggest some add&#039;l schooling?  You really think that you can sit around and act like the ultimate thinker with every answer to any problem that has ever existed.  In reality, you are a mumbnut. You WISH you could graduate from MIT (my alma mater).  A brain like yours will one day depend on a brain like mine to get you by as a Senior Citizen.  So, be nice.  There will come a day when your OLD ASS will be needing someone to push the wheelchair.  Hopefully, for you, I won&#039;t be anywhere near a cliff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is apparent is that you focus your &#8220;quasi-academic&#8221; mind&#8230; or what little you have of it&#8230; on other people&#8217;s opinions.  Most call that HATING.  Your opinions, snobbty white guy, are just as inane and stupid.  After reading some of your blogs,  might I suggest some add&#8217;l schooling?  You really think that you can sit around and act like the ultimate thinker with every answer to any problem that has ever existed.  In reality, you are a mumbnut. You WISH you could graduate from MIT (my alma mater).  A brain like yours will one day depend on a brain like mine to get you by as a Senior Citizen.  So, be nice.  There will come a day when your OLD ASS will be needing someone to push the wheelchair.  Hopefully, for you, I won&#8217;t be anywhere near a cliff.</p>
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		<title>By: Praja Rajyam</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/09/04/the-downside-of-quasi-academic-blogging/#comment-71419</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Praja Rajyam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/?p=1541#comment-71419</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peter, 

I think it is fine - we cannot control the people without knowledge making open statements - but, it is left to the reader to decide on who is writing on what - and the knowledge levels of the person who is writing.

-Anand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, </p>
<p>I think it is fine &#8211; we cannot control the people without knowledge making open statements &#8211; but, it is left to the reader to decide on who is writing on what &#8211; and the knowledge levels of the person who is writing.</p>
<p>-Anand.</p>
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		<title>By: Rafe Champion</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/09/04/the-downside-of-quasi-academic-blogging/#comment-71361</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rafe Champion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/?p=1541#comment-71361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A local commentator made a tart comment about reports of an &quot;unexpected rise in US unemployment&quot;. He noted that the minimum wage was recently increased, so what did people expect?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A local commentator made a tart comment about reports of an &#8220;unexpected rise in US unemployment&#8221;. He noted that the minimum wage was recently increased, so what did people expect?</p>
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		<title>By: Bogdan Enache</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/09/04/the-downside-of-quasi-academic-blogging/#comment-71348</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bogdan Enache]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 02:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/?p=1541#comment-71348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Still, she does a great job pointig out all those pro-minimum wage papers, I think she deserves some credit for that and I also think that it&#039;s actually true that - some economists, at least - do take their models too literally.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still, she does a great job pointig out all those pro-minimum wage papers, I think she deserves some credit for that and I also think that it&#8217;s actually true that &#8211; some economists, at least &#8211; do take their models too literally.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Klein</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/09/04/the-downside-of-quasi-academic-blogging/#comment-71334</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Klein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/?p=1541#comment-71334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Henry and John, I&#039;m sorry my post rubbed you the wrong way. Perhaps I am unfair to Kathy. However, I think you two and I read the original post differently. I don&#039;t at all see Kathy&#039;s post as an even-handed, dispassionate summary of a specialized literature for the lay reader. Rather, I read it as a diatribe. Note, for example, the title of her post: &quot;Economic Fundamentalism and the Minimum Wage.&quot; The term &quot;economic fundamentalism,&quot; like its cousin &quot;market fundamentalism,&quot; is a smear, meant to imply that economists and others who don&#039;t support minimum-wage laws are &quot;fundamentalists,&quot; akin to flat-earthers. And how about this: &quot;[G]iven the anti-regulation ideological bias of the economics profession as a whole, it’s not hard to imagine that studies that do find that the minimum wage has a disemployment effect are considerably more likely to be published.&quot; As an ideologically biased pro-market person myself, I can only chuckle at the notion that the economics profession as a whole is ideologically biased toward the free market. 

Perhaps I have been unfair to Kathy; maybe I was in a cranky mood when I read her post (when it appeared back in May). But if she had only summarized the literature, with some commentary thrown in, I probably wouldn&#039;t have batted an eye. What stuck in my craw, however -- and still does, upon a fresh reading -- is passages like this: &quot;[I]t’s a huge mistake to view the purchase of a unit of human labor as being exactly the same as the purchase of a widget. What economics has done is to take the models of the supply and demand of consumer goods and apply them to the supply and demand of labor. This, I believe, is fundamentally wrong-headed. Human labor and consumer goods are categorically different, and it’s a big mistake to treat them as if they were interchangeable. There are a slew of institutions, norms, and other features of labor markets that do not apply to product markets.&quot; This isn&#039;t just a straw man; it&#039;s a man made of carbon nanotubes. What economist has ever argued that labor and widgets are identical? Certainly not Kevin Murphy, or Finis Welch, or any of the specialists on the other side of the Card-Krueger debate. And when Kathy writes, &quot;This, I believe, is fundamentally wrong-headed,&quot; it sure sounds to me like she claims to be making a profound, original insight. And, really, do you guys regard this as a temperate remark: &quot;I also believe, based on his writings, that Kevin Murphy, like all too many economists, takes the models literally. He is so enamored of them that he sees them, I think, not as tools for understanding, but as God’s revealed truth, handed down to Moses on stone tablets. He’s an economic fundamentalist, if you will. . . . Fortunately, though, the old-fashioned theories about labor markets that Murphy and others hold are gradually being displaced.&quot;

Again, if I came across as smug and condescending in my post, I apologize. But I stand by my assessment of the substance and tone of the original post. It&#039;s a polemic, it&#039;s snide, dismissive, and totally inappropriate given the writer&#039;s (presumed) age and experience. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry and John, I&#8217;m sorry my post rubbed you the wrong way. Perhaps I am unfair to Kathy. However, I think you two and I read the original post differently. I don&#8217;t at all see Kathy&#8217;s post as an even-handed, dispassionate summary of a specialized literature for the lay reader. Rather, I read it as a diatribe. Note, for example, the title of her post: &#8220;Economic Fundamentalism and the Minimum Wage.&#8221; The term &#8220;economic fundamentalism,&#8221; like its cousin &#8220;market fundamentalism,&#8221; is a smear, meant to imply that economists and others who don&#8217;t support minimum-wage laws are &#8220;fundamentalists,&#8221; akin to flat-earthers. And how about this: &#8220;[G]iven the anti-regulation ideological bias of the economics profession as a whole, it’s not hard to imagine that studies that do find that the minimum wage has a disemployment effect are considerably more likely to be published.&#8221; As an ideologically biased pro-market person myself, I can only chuckle at the notion that the economics profession as a whole is ideologically biased toward the free market. </p>
<p>Perhaps I have been unfair to Kathy; maybe I was in a cranky mood when I read her post (when it appeared back in May). But if she had only summarized the literature, with some commentary thrown in, I probably wouldn&#8217;t have batted an eye. What stuck in my craw, however &#8212; and still does, upon a fresh reading &#8212; is passages like this: &#8220;[I]t’s a huge mistake to view the purchase of a unit of human labor as being exactly the same as the purchase of a widget. What economics has done is to take the models of the supply and demand of consumer goods and apply them to the supply and demand of labor. This, I believe, is fundamentally wrong-headed. Human labor and consumer goods are categorically different, and it’s a big mistake to treat them as if they were interchangeable. There are a slew of institutions, norms, and other features of labor markets that do not apply to product markets.&#8221; This isn&#8217;t just a straw man; it&#8217;s a man made of carbon nanotubes. What economist has ever argued that labor and widgets are identical? Certainly not Kevin Murphy, or Finis Welch, or any of the specialists on the other side of the Card-Krueger debate. And when Kathy writes, &#8220;This, I believe, is fundamentally wrong-headed,&#8221; it sure sounds to me like she claims to be making a profound, original insight. And, really, do you guys regard this as a temperate remark: &#8220;I also believe, based on his writings, that Kevin Murphy, like all too many economists, takes the models literally. He is so enamored of them that he sees them, I think, not as tools for understanding, but as God’s revealed truth, handed down to Moses on stone tablets. He’s an economic fundamentalist, if you will. . . . Fortunately, though, the old-fashioned theories about labor markets that Murphy and others hold are gradually being displaced.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, if I came across as smug and condescending in my post, I apologize. But I stand by my assessment of the substance and tone of the original post. It&#8217;s a polemic, it&#8217;s snide, dismissive, and totally inappropriate given the writer&#8217;s (presumed) age and experience.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/09/04/the-downside-of-quasi-academic-blogging/#comment-71333</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Quiggin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/?p=1541#comment-71333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And where, exactly, does the post say &quot;labor and commodities are different economic goods, so that the law of demand does not apply to the former! &quot; ?

The argument in the post is that labor markets are different from those in the simplest kind of model where the law of demand is usually presented, and so you should be careful in drawing inferences of this kind (and, no, ceteris paribus does not function as an all-purpose get out of jail free card here).

If you&#039;re going to complain about misquotation, you should be more careful yourself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And where, exactly, does the post say &#8220;labor and commodities are different economic goods, so that the law of demand does not apply to the former! &#8221; ?</p>
<p>The argument in the post is that labor markets are different from those in the simplest kind of model where the law of demand is usually presented, and so you should be careful in drawing inferences of this kind (and, no, ceteris paribus does not function as an all-purpose get out of jail free card here).</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re going to complain about misquotation, you should be more careful yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Farrell</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/09/04/the-downside-of-quasi-academic-blogging/#comment-71332</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Farrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/?p=1541#comment-71332</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peter - this is a remarkably mean-spirited and ungracious post for someone who usually doesn&#039;t go in for this sort of thing. Where does Kathy say or even hint that she believes that this is a &#039;brilliant new insight?&#039; Nowhere - except in your imagination. She is quite obviously summarizing a debate for non-specialists, and making the claim that the empirical evidence that moderate increases in the minimum wage hurt employment is quite dubious. This claim has the signal virtue of being correct, no matter how inconvenient it may be for modelers. The rest of your post seems to consist of a condescending argument from authority -  e.g. &quot; apparently some kind of grad student  ... if I were this blogger&#039;s academic advisor.&quot; Personally, I find such arguments quite unconvincing; perhaps you differ.

As you note yourself above, &quot;Even in the blogosphere the rules of civilized discourse should apply. Treat your intellectual opponents with respect.&quot; Your response would perhaps have been more compelling if you had applied these rules of thumb to your own blogpost. I know that you&#039;re a smarter and more thoughtful person than this post might seem to suggest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter &#8211; this is a remarkably mean-spirited and ungracious post for someone who usually doesn&#8217;t go in for this sort of thing. Where does Kathy say or even hint that she believes that this is a &#8216;brilliant new insight?&#8217; Nowhere &#8211; except in your imagination. She is quite obviously summarizing a debate for non-specialists, and making the claim that the empirical evidence that moderate increases in the minimum wage hurt employment is quite dubious. This claim has the signal virtue of being correct, no matter how inconvenient it may be for modelers. The rest of your post seems to consist of a condescending argument from authority &#8211;  e.g. &#8221; apparently some kind of grad student  &#8230; if I were this blogger&#8217;s academic advisor.&#8221; Personally, I find such arguments quite unconvincing; perhaps you differ.</p>
<p>As you note yourself above, &#8220;Even in the blogosphere the rules of civilized discourse should apply. Treat your intellectual opponents with respect.&#8221; Your response would perhaps have been more compelling if you had applied these rules of thumb to your own blogpost. I know that you&#8217;re a smarter and more thoughtful person than this post might seem to suggest.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Klein</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/09/04/the-downside-of-quasi-academic-blogging/#comment-71327</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Klein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 18:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/?p=1541#comment-71327</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, but who has said &quot;increases in the minimum wage always and everywhere lead to employment declines&quot;? Certainly not Kevin Murphy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but who has said &#8220;increases in the minimum wage always and everywhere lead to employment declines&#8221;? Certainly not Kevin Murphy.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald A. Coffin</title>
		<link>http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/09/04/the-downside-of-quasi-academic-blogging/#comment-71326</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald A. Coffin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organizationsandmarkets.wordpress.com/?p=1541#comment-71326</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So, OK, I&#039;ll bite.  (I should point out that I am by training and interest a labor economist; I have read and am familiar with the literature.  I&#039;ve done some research in the area.)  Here&#039;s the conclusion to the discussion about the eployment effects of changes in the minimum wage in the best-selling labor economics textbook (Ronald Ehrenberg and Robert Smith, Modern Labor Economics, 9th ed., p. 114):

&quot;With some studies estimating no effect on employment, and with many of those that do [find a negative employment effedt] estimating an own-wage labor demand elasticity well below unity (the average in Table 4.1), we remain notably uncertain about how employment among low-wage workers responds to increases in the minimum wage.  We will come back to this issue...and offer a possible reason for why mandated wage increases might have a smaller and more uncertain effect on labor demand than wage increases generated by market forces.&quot;

Certainly a ringing endorsement of the proposition that increases in the minimum wage always and everywhere lead to employment declines, eh?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, OK, I&#8217;ll bite.  (I should point out that I am by training and interest a labor economist; I have read and am familiar with the literature.  I&#8217;ve done some research in the area.)  Here&#8217;s the conclusion to the discussion about the eployment effects of changes in the minimum wage in the best-selling labor economics textbook (Ronald Ehrenberg and Robert Smith, Modern Labor Economics, 9th ed., p. 114):</p>
<p>&#8220;With some studies estimating no effect on employment, and with many of those that do [find a negative employment effedt] estimating an own-wage labor demand elasticity well below unity (the average in Table 4.1), we remain notably uncertain about how employment among low-wage workers responds to increases in the minimum wage.  We will come back to this issue&#8230;and offer a possible reason for why mandated wage increases might have a smaller and more uncertain effect on labor demand than wage increases generated by market forces.&#8221;</p>
<p>Certainly a ringing endorsement of the proposition that increases in the minimum wage always and everywhere lead to employment declines, eh?</p>
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